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THIS will make me popular!

Dirk Deppey has some food for thought regarding this whole Mary Jane Does Whiter Whites business. There's some stuff I disagree with (for example, the "make your own fucking comics" argument is a cousin of the "unless you're creative, you can't criticize me" auto-failure, albeit one that stands on slightly steadier feet; also, that statue is hideously tacky, and casting aspersions on the G-W outfit's motives is right out), but there's a good deal that I think has some merit or at least deserves some thought. Feminist comics fandom has developed into an unfortunately reactionary force, one that seems at times more satisfied with railing against individual deviations from the party line than effecting real change, and that's a real lost opportunity. In a sense, since fandom means you're paying attention to creative products from some other source, of course a lot of the activity is going to arise in reaction to something the comic companies have done, but that doesn't mean that such reactions have to comprise the bulk of that activity. Does it seriously matter if some blogger has idiotic opinions on superhero comics? In the grand scheme of things, what good will it do to change that one person's mind if that's all you do? There's a lot to do and not much time to do it in, and we can either waste our energy convincing anonymous assholes that their opinions are incorrect, or we can do something with more tangible results. And yes, I know that the two are not mutually exclusive in theory, but in practice how often do they coincide? I've been guilty of it too in the past, but after a while the futility of it gets to me and I have to do something more useful (or at least more fun).

Oh, and if you end up seeing this, Dirk, some of us DO make the fucking comics we want to see. Some of us are even hosted on Girl-Wonder, not that most people seem to notice. Some of also get e-punched in the face for doing it, and we keep at it, because we are stubborn and hate everyone and these gay anarchist cowboys aren't going to write comics about themselves.

Comments

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 08:52 pm (UTC)
As part of G-W (if only tangentially), I can safely say that I do not give a flying fuck about Stephanie Brown or her little dead-kid snowglobe. (My fannish entitlements run to being slightly upset that there isn't a monthly comic about Booster Gold getting maimed by public transportation.) Still, since it's such a small thing, I don't see why they can't give her a snowglobe, and since they refuse without offering a satisfactory reason for it that strikes me as fishy. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment within the group. Thus, to say that all the people involved with the group are just HEAT with vaginas is inaccurate and unfairly dismissive, and I'm tired of hearing it.
thehefner
May. 14th, 2007 09:17 pm (UTC)
So, with this opportunity presented to me, can I finally defend HEAT as a group that was seriously maligned in their day because of Wizard Magazine, and that bullshit about them sending death threats was blown way the fuck outta proportion?

Because they as a group didn't, but some of the more extreme Hal fans probably did, just as I'm positive there are just-as-extreme loser freak fans of Kyle Rayner, Stephanie, Ted, and so on. There are always extreme fans, and I could believe one or two certain HEAT members did send in a death threat, but these were probably the Guy Gardner fans anyway. Which is to say, inclined to be loudmouth aggressive idiots and trolls.

I haven't given a crap about HEAT or anything involved with GL comics for six years or so, when I finally realized that Hal and the Corps would be coming back no matter what, and there was no point sweating it by living on the DC message boards. But every so often, I'm still inclined to speak up and defend the group, an organization which actually did charity work for children's hospitals back in the day, in addition to bitching on message boards.

Ugh... in the end, hell, I guess even I'm turned off by close-knit fan groups with an agenda, be they Browncoats, G_W, and, yes, even HEAT. Still, just as you're tired of hearing things like that, I'm kinda sick of it too. Know what I mean? Most HEAT guys were good, sane people, and friends of mine, back in the day. And I'm just sick of that group getting a bad name because of a couple idiots and the poor editorial skills of fucking Wizard magazine.
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
All fans of Ted are sexy and clean-smelling. I'll gut you if you say differently.

I'm less favorably inclined toward HEAT as it seems a purely fannish group, and I don't know of any reason to belong to HEAT except if you were an angry Green Lantern fan. It's not quite the same thing as G-W, which one can certainly support without being a Stephanie Brown fan. (If I'm wrong about HEAT, go on and correct me.) Still, considering they did charity work, I guess that does help improve my opinion of them--rather like Child's Play, really.
thehefner
May. 14th, 2007 09:19 pm (UTC)
That said, I still make fun of Browncoats, even though a number of my friends are sensitive members of that group. So if this is just to be karma biting me back in the arse, well, there you go.

It's just too much fun to say that a certain movie, comic, or TV show was "browncoated" for me!
(Deleted comment)
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 10:03 pm (UTC)
Who's talking about Hive Vaginas?
(Deleted comment)
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 10:27 pm (UTC)
Re: Who's talking about Hive Vaginas?
Yeah, what if that thing! Except that would make it the saddest, most ineffective con game in the world. But I guess you could still be outraged about it if you wanted.
(Anonymous)
May. 14th, 2007 08:51 pm (UTC)
So...
...when will you be getting to the "gay anarchist" part?

Dirk Deppey,
The Comics Journal
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 08:54 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Sorry, it's taking a while--the artist is in an intensive 3-D animation program, so we're a bit behind schedule. We're doing the best we can, though.
(Anonymous)
May. 14th, 2007 09:25 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Oh, no complaints -- there's nothing stupider than asking the cook if it's soup yet, and all that.
(Anonymous)
May. 14th, 2007 09:26 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Oh, no complaints -- there's nothing stupider than asking the cook if it's soup yet, and all that.

Dirk Deppey,
Yadda yadda yadda
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 09:44 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
It's soup. It's just not gay anarchist soup yet.
adam_0oo
May. 14th, 2007 09:29 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
And no spoiler on the gay part? Though who knows, that might not be a plot point worthy of needing to be spoiled. As in, no spoiler at all.
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 09:42 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
It's not a spoiler or anything, just something I didn't want to publicize at first. I didn't want people to get the impression that being gay was the most important thing about him, so I haven't mentioned it much to avoid making a big deal about it. As it is, it's not really a plot point; it's something he is and it'll affect the story in a couple places, but the Communism is way more important to the story.

Still, I really like that turn of phrase, so I've been using it a bit more lately. :D
adam_0oo
May. 15th, 2007 01:17 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Communism more important than being gay!!! Somewhere, someone is deeply offended.

Also, be sure not to kill him off now that this is revealed, you will have a Wild West Freedom Ring on your hands.
heykidzcomix
May. 15th, 2007 03:08 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Only if he gets assfucked to death. I can assure you that this is not the case.
adam_0oo
May. 15th, 2007 05:08 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Again, no spoiler alert on that?
heykidzcomix
May. 15th, 2007 05:48 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Do I have to do spoilers for stuff that doesn't happen? So confused.
adam_0oo
May. 15th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
Re: So...
Well...yeah, if he is in a situation in which he is confronted by an assfucking cliffhanger, and with sweat on his brow, he wonders whether he will make it, and you are all "tune in next week," I will be assured of his relative safety, and not worried for his horrible, horrible death.

Honestly, don't mind me, I am a bit obsessed with spoilers, or not exposing myself to them. Anytime there are commercials for Lost on, I jump for the mute button or put my hands over my ears and shout out "na na na na na" and so on.
adam_0oo
May. 14th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)
And while I am commenting...*flip flip flip flipidy flip flip*...That Does read better all in one go. Though granted I only read the first, bit initially, so maybe things would be moving faster now with the fighting and shooting and violent humor anyway. I know you are having trouble with your format and so on, and I have nothing too helpful to say on that part, but it is quite a delightful read once it gets going, and both the writing and art and plotting seem to be getting better, tighter and faster paced. Keep it up!
heykidzcomix
May. 14th, 2007 09:43 pm (UTC)
Thank you! As I've said before, it's really a graphic novel, not a webcomic, but you do what you can with what you've got. Glad you enjoyed it.
scribbleomania
May. 15th, 2007 11:39 am (UTC)
When hateful and misogynist things are said, some people feel they have an obligation to not be silent. This can turn into a big waste of time when everyone starts sniping across the internet, and yes, it really makes people on either side look completely insane. Not to mention identical to one another.

I'm more bewildered that comic makers generally don't take women into consideration--a whole lot of women still want to buy comics, and they have money. (!) When you market something, and arguably become a cultural icon, you really ought to respond to the culture instead of staying years behind because "sex sells" and girls shouldn't feel so "entitled" to equal treatment. A lot of the outrage over this tasteful statue is from new fans, or even people who weren't (and probably never will be) comic book fans. Some of the protesters are even guys. Gasp.

I like comics, and I am good at ignoring the ones that suck. I love your comic and I'd be happy to read that over Spider Man forever and ever. But I can't say I disagree with people's anger, or demands for change. Even if they don't go about it effectively.
heykidzcomix
May. 15th, 2007 03:33 pm (UTC)
No, I don't disagree with their anger or any of that either. I'd be angry too if I didn't find it so pathetic. Still, these are the people who thought that the best way to counteract people's well-deserved dislike of Supertorso's icky, icky book was to throw in a hairy, abusive asshole with a hole in his shirt. Even if they DID get the message that this stuff is not cool and needs to be fixed, how much confidence do you have that they would actually get it right? There has to be a better way to get change without relying on the people that brought you Spidey's Radioactive Jism.
scribbleomania
May. 15th, 2007 03:53 pm (UTC)
That is an incredibly good point. I'm generally worried about how easily the message can be disregarded, because of its...method of delivery. And people seriously need to know that Supertorso's book was horrible, for example. Still, while not disagreeing with you at all, people probably wouldn't seem so berserk if the comic book industry wasn't largely assholes. The whole letter-writing campaign for Stephanie Brown probably wouldn't have escalated if DC hadn't refused the incredibly simple request. Now IT'S ON BITCHES.
gailsimone1
May. 15th, 2007 03:51 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you're still commenting, Alice. I think you art a bit of a genius.

Gail
heykidzcomix
May. 15th, 2007 05:51 pm (UTC)
Thank you, I like to think so too.
skalja
May. 16th, 2007 04:57 pm (UTC)
Wow, would you believe I had no idea you were the Goodbye Chains writer! Neat! Well, this is a reminder I need to catch up, anyway.

When I've seen people going, "All g-w does is bitch and bitch," I've tried to politely flail and point out Goodbye Chains and Planet Karen, but I don't know if anyone actually bothers to go check them out or whether they're just strawmanning for the sake of strawmanning. But, for the record.
phthoggos
May. 19th, 2007 08:13 pm (UTC)
You are my favorite.
( 27 comments — Leave a comment )

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